Volume 6 Talk 19
Wolfsburg, Germany - November 30, 1959
Talk To Men And Women

[Beginning not recorded] …Bapak welcomes you all. Now Bapak is going to explain about appointing members to sit on the committee, so that our association here can be as well-ordered as possible. This can be arranged in the way that is normal here, so that our by-laws do not conflict with the laws of your country.

As well as this, Bapak will appoint some of you as candidate helpers, who will start your work in three or four months’ time, when the provisional committee Bapak is about to appoint resigns. A general meeting will then elect their replacements. Of course, the present members of the committee are eligible for re-election, if no successor can be found and if they are willing to continue to work as members of the committee. But if they continue as members of the committee, although they were supposed to become helpers, they should not open people or look after the latihan but just continue to do committee work. This way there will be a separation between the work of the committee and the helpers.

The work of the committee is simply the administration of our association; in other words, it is work done by the thinking mind and the heart – the work of worldly affairs. In the committee, therefore, there is a chairperson, a deputy chair, a secretary, a deputy secretary, a treasurer, a deputy treasurer and some assistants. However, in the group of helpers there is no chairperson and so on; they are all the same – meaning equally low and equally high. Therefore decisions are not made by a chairperson, but are decided by doing latihan together; so whatever is received will become the answer to the question or suggestion put forward.

The way to obtain a resolution or decision about something suggested or put forward is to do latihan together. But before doing so the question is read aloud. You just read it out in an ordinary way, and that is all. Do not remember it or think about it, then an answer may be obtained that is free from your will. In this way you will get your answer.

As you are still in the beginning stages – meaning at the stage of movement – it is the movements you receive that provide the form or picture of the answer to the question you put forward. Bapak is going to give an example of this later, at the end of the talk. Now Bapak wants to announce the names of those he has appointed to serve on the committee and of the candidate helpers. [The names are read out in German.]

Although there are some helpers already, who could open people, they will start their actual work after three months, because from today onward those who are interested in joining us have to go through a three-month candidacy period.

The exceptions, those who can be opened right away – maybe there are not so many – are those who wish to join but suffer from some sort of illness. They cannot wait three months because they are sick and really need to be opened. They can be opened at once. Also, those who have reached the age of sixty-three do not have to wait three months; as long as they have a sincere wish to join they can be opened at once. Wives of those who are already in Subud do not need to wait for three months; they can be opened right away. And children of Subud parents, who have reached eighteen years but are still the responsibility of their parents, can be opened at once.

[There follows a brief discussion about opening people from far away.]

Also, if people live far from Wolfsburg and come here to be opened, they do not need to wait three months. Say they travelled five hundred kilometres to come here, it would not be fair to ask them to wait another three months. They can be opened straight away, as long as the helpers have tested carefully about it.

If a woman is in Subud and as yet, her husband is not, he cannot automatically be opened right away; he needs to wait three months because his case is different. In general a man is the head of the family, so if he has joined Subud all the members of his family can join Subud right away without having to wait or having it tested. But if only the wife is in Subud, then the husband – who is the head of the family – needs to go through the three-month candidacy period.

These are the things that Bapak needs to say so that you can be aware of them. Now he will continue to explain about the latihan that you have received and have been doing.

The nature of the latihan is that it is a training of the soul. And it is nothing like other kinds of training, such as training for speed-walking, playing football, dancing and so on; rather, it is a training that comes from and is moved by the power of God that is within you. So it is clear that this latihan you have been doing is really the work of God within you. And truly, the latihan is free from the influence of our thinking mind, heart and desires, and acts beyond them. This shows that it is exclusively God’s work, which does not require any interference from our thinking, heart or desires.

If you ask why our thinking, heart and desires are not allowed to interfere, it is because our soul – which is being trained by God – is the core of our life. Our soul existed before all these physical organs, before all the rest. So all these physical parts of us are something new in the composition of life, and it is impossible for what is new to change what was there before. Only God can do that, because God came before the very beginning and God comes after the very end. God exceeds everything. God is deeper than the deepest and beyond the farthest. That is why God alone can do this work.

The truth is that the soul can only develop when the thinking mind, heart and desires do not work; meaning, when they have stopped and are quiet. That gives the soul an opportunity to grow. So the soul develops like small children do when they are given food such as bread, cheese and other things. But with the soul it is different – it is just the reverse; the soul will grow when it is not fed by the heart, mind and desires. On the other hand, our mind, heart and desires need to work in order for our mind to become intelligent, our heart clever and our desires strong; for what they eat is our experiences in this world.

In other words, the food of the soul comes through the emptiness of the mind, heart and desires, while the food of the brain, heart and desires comes from plenty of thinking; that is, through study. So they are obviously different in their aims and conditions; one is able to grow only when it is empty, the other when it is occupied.

What Bapak means by emptiness is not that it is empty and you have a void. No. It is when the human mind, heart and the desires are empty that God’s power will come, beyond the mind, heart and desires. This has been proved by those who have trained themselves for a long time by isolating themselves in a quiet place and abstaining from all pleasure. When they come to a really quiet state, completely free of everything – so that, although still alive they are as though already dead – that is when they will feel something beyond their expectation. It is what is usually called ‘the voice of life in a state of death’.

This shows that what they experience in that state is the nature of life after death, which is the same as what you always receive in the latihan. So what you have received is the movement of life that is the same as the movement of life you will experience after you die, after you have left this world. Therefore, in the latihan, you begin to be introduced to your life after death, which is free from the desires, the thinking mind and the heart.

You will be able to feel this yourselves after receiving the latihan, especially those who have been doing it for longer. You will feel within you an awakening of a new life, which is completely different from your life before receiving the latihan.

Later on, so that the awakening of your soul that brings the feeling of this new life should not continue to feel strange to you, you will, little by little, be introduced to the difference in feeling between an activity initiated by your soul and one initiated by your ordinary heart. So eventually you will be aware of your walk, for example: you will be aware when you are stepping forward from the will of your heart, and when it is not from the will of your heart. It will be the same with moving your hands. This will go deeper and deeper and gradually penetrate every member of your body and every part of your self until eventually, when you see, you will see with your desires, with your thinking mind and with your soul. And later, once you are aware of this, you will be able to feel the difference between ‘I see, influenced by the material force’; ‘I see, influenced by the vegetable force’; ‘I see, influenced by the animal force’; ‘I see, influenced by the human force’; and ‘I see, influenced by forces higher than the human’.

This will also happen with respect to other parts of your body, including a certain part that is the number one or most important part. For your most important organ, your most private organ, has the function not of an assistant but of a representative of God in creating a new, small, human being; meaning, having a baby. Ladies and gentlemen, you will certainly be able to distinguish and be aware of that difference. ‘Am I uniting with my wife under the influence of the material force, the vegetable force, the animal force or the physical human force?’ Or is it from a force higher than you are, from a noble will that will enable you to have a child with a perfect human soul?

Because the influence of all these life forces – as Bapak has said before – originates from souls or entities that existed before the outer form we have now, our brain, heart and desires cannot therefore restrain them or understand them. Yes, we just have to put up with their influence. The result is that people are not aware that their union with their husbands or wives is in fact influenced by these low forces, which bring them misfortune and prevent them from having children who are excellent human beings. Instead, their children will have the characteristics of the forces that influenced their conception; that is, material, vegetable, animal or, at very most, the physical human.

Normally – and please forgive Bapak, because Subud indeed relates to intimate things – when a man and a woman unite it is because one wants it and the other accepts; or one gives and the other receives. But this is without knowing or being aware that the pleasure of giving comes from the influence of low forces, which will create a child of inferior quality. Low forces also influence the one who accepts, so we do not know whom it is who wants to accept.

[Inaudible] …normally it is just because the heart demands it, and it is called being ‘in love’. It is the same with the other partner; again they are ‘in love’. In Dutch it is called liefde. Yes, that’s how it is. Their hearts have created ‘being in love’ between the two of them. But do not forget, brothers and sisters, that the heart is unstable. So is the thinking mind; and the desires are exactly the same. So while they were still young he was attracted to his wife, but once she grew old he didn’t love her any more. That is what the heart is like: it never stays the same, it changes with time. So if you rely on being ‘in love’ or on mutual attraction, the low forces can very easily influence you. That is why human beings need to worship God, because only God can show them the way and guide them so that their human souls can grow and develop. Then human beings will spontaneously become aware that they are noble creatures of God, who can represent God in passing on the human seed, so that this world may become a place of well-being and peace.

So it is a great good fortune and an unlimited gift for you – especially those of you who are young – to have received this latihan. As they say in the proverb, it will enable you to ‘put up your umbrella before it rains’ or to ‘put on your hat before the sun shines’. So, those of you who are still young, when you get married – or if you are already married and do not have many children yet – you will be well prepared and able to give birth to children of good quality.

For those of you who are already older, do not feel discouraged or disappointed because for you this comes too late. There is also an advantage for you, because the latihan you have received will influence your children and make them interested and want to follow the latihan. And you yourself will find the right way because you have received guidance from God. In the same way, for those who have not yet married and do not intend to get married at all, they also obtain guidance from God but it is limited to them, because they intentionally do not get married or have children.

It is a pity if these people do not wish to marry; they are like trees whose fruit is very delicious but which are no longer planted. That is what it is like. Supposing these people are good, with perfect souls, but they don’t want to marry at all in their life – it is a great pity that they will not pass on the human seed. It is, as Bapak said, like a tree that bears wonderful fruit, which would fetch a high price if it were sold, but it is no longer planted. So it ends there.

On the other hand, there are people who are always getting married and have many children, but who have not experienced the true worship of God. They are like plants that do not bear good fruit, but just keep growing. That is not good either.

Such is the guidance within each one of you; it enables you to become aware and to accept what needs to be changed and what you have to do, in the right way. It means that everything is in accordance with God’s commands. And the commands that you receive from God do not go against the nature of the one who receives them. This means that you will find out what is right because your seeing has been cleaned and filled with the power of God that matches your seeing. Similarly, your heart will change and become a good heart – the best – because it has been cleaned and filled with the power of God that matches the nature of your heart.

Bapak can tell you that the guidance of God’s power in all the parts of your being is matched to their individual natures. For instance, say you are a woman: God’s guidance for you will not go against your womanhood. Similarly, the guidance given to a man will not conflict with his manhood. Therefore do not act from your own will; it is better to act according to what you receive in the latihan.

Take, for example, such a trivial thing as the matter of dress. Bapak wants to tell you why it is not good, or not allowed, for women to do the latihan dressed like men – for example, wearing trousers. In fact there is a reason; it has a meaning. It is not that Bapak prevents you from doing so, or wants you to act like people in the East. No. East is East, here is here. They are different. But whether it is East or West, women are women. You cannot have eastern women being like women and western women being like men. Women are women, no matter where they are. So it is important for you women to do latihan wearing women’s clothes. You can be practical about it so that you can move easily; but do not move according to your own will – as though you were a man – because you are wearing unsuitable clothes. That would only harm you; it is a bit like asking a dog to jump like a horse, or a horse to jump like a dog. It will not do you any good; rather, it will do you harm because you will be behaving, moving and acting in a way that is not in harmony with your own nature and form.

To do that would really harm you; it would lower your value. For in the latihan women are taught and given an awareness of the clothes they should wear and how to look attractive. You will spontaneously attract the attention of men. The fact is – Bapak doesn’t say it should be like that, but that is how it is – that women generally like it very much if they, and what they do, are noticed by men. Not by women. No. That is the truth. Maybe you will say, ‘No’. You can say that, but in fact that is how it is. Likewise, a man who dresses well, in a manly way, would like to be observed by women rather than by men. If a man looks at a man it is boring. It is the same for a woman to look at another woman. It is not just boring, there is a touch of jealousy. It is like that.

God’s guidance for humankind is truly wide. We cannot measure how far it reaches and how much there is, because God’s guidance adapts itself to the activity and behaviour of human beings. So, for you women, you will retain your womanhood and you will receive the most perfect guidance. How you move, how you act, how you do your make-up, how you welcome your husband when he comes home from work, how you talk and how you socialise with others – you will be taught all of this and guided by the power of God.

So truly, the closeness of a person to God does not benefit God. No. It benefits the person concerned, and that is God’s will. When God creates human beings He does not abandon them, but always accompanies them with His power and guidance, if they only knew it.

Among the activities and work of a woman is cooking. Certainly, God will guide all of you women to be really good cooks. And for those of you who are married, the most important aspect of being a good cook is that your man should really enjoy your cooking. As a result he will eventually no longer want to eat out, because at home the meals will be much more delicious than in a restaurant. This will show that the feelings, the heart and even the soul of the woman are able to touch the inner being of her husband, so that their two natures can become one. This is why it usually happens that even though the woman’s name is Rollie, after getting married to, let us say, Rudolf, she will no longer be called Rollie but Mrs Rudolf.

The true oneness of life for human beings is in the union between woman and man or man and woman. As a result of such a union – the union of the entire being, not just of the heart but also of the soul – a child or a new human seed will grow and be born that comes from one human being and not from two. The thinking faculty of many children is split, and so is their character, because they are not the children of one human being, but two. This is a misfortune.

This makes it clear that the test for a woman is to be able to take care of her husband. Only when you have perfected that will you be able to do God’s will in the world. [A break in recording.] …[You should not be] in a hurry to say you love God, when you are not yet able to love your husband.

As for the men, don’t be too cocky. It is the same for you: do not be too quick to declare your love for God if you are not yet able to love your wife. The fact is that it is much easier to love another person than to love God. Do not be in a hurry to lift a mountain; start with a small stone first.

This is how God guides human beings. It starts with what you are receiving in the latihan. And do not imagine that this Subud latihan does not contain very much. On the contrary, one could say that maybe it contains more than any vessel can hold, even if the vessel were this world.

This is the end of Bapak’s explanation about the realm of the soul, about the content of what you receive and will always receive when you do the latihan. Now he will continue for a little, to fulfil what he said earlier about giving you some examples of how you should test and how you receive an answer to a question.

[Testing]

Bapak thanks all of you very, very much, especially the members of the committee, for welcoming him and his family here and for looking after us in a way that we have all enjoyed and that has made us happy. Bapak simply prays that the One Almighty God will reward your generosity in the same measure. And he hopes that God will bless you all so that you can do and receive the latihan well and easily; and that eventually you will truly become aware of all the needs of your life in this world.

Bapak ends by saying goodbye, good-night and thank you.

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