Bapak answers questions put to him by the international helpers, Raphael Krohn and Rahmaniyah Bowden

( 1st Question )

We feel that we have covered the situation traveling to most of the groups in Europe, outside the Mediterranean, and in North America, but in South America and in Africa we do not have very good contacts. Especially in South America it seems to us that the situation is not so good. The reason why we have not traveled to this area is mainly economic reasons, but also because of time, as we are all working. In Europe there has been an interesting development, in Eastern Europe, in Poland, where 40 people have been opened in the last 1/2 year. There seems to be a need for Subud there and with the present political situation it is not so difficult to travel in and out. We hope Bapak would give us some clarification whether we should travel more in other Zones... ( inaudible )

( 2nd Question )

Having just learned that the Compact Council is going to be in Latin America it seems important to mention that there are no kejiwaan Coordinators there at the moment. The lady coordinator has resigned and we have written to ask about further developments but had no answer and the man coordinator has only written 1 letter after the World Congress, but sent no reports at all. We would like a directive from Bapak because it would make a big difference for any action of ours to be accepted: whether to write to other countries for appointing other Coordinators?

Bapak says that Bapak feels the best way is to go there. And when you go there Bapak wants you to take especially the cassettes of Bapak's talks at this Congress; at the meetings we just had here. And in addition to letting them listen to these cassettes, you can explain also what they need to know about Subud. And Bapak says that Bapak knows very well the situation there, it is chaotic and the reason why things are so chaotic in Latin America, is from the people there, who have always tended to put themselves up as leaders in Subud. Starting with Dr. Ruso and so on. And it is this that makes it chaotic. On top of which came Prio, whose explanations about Subud were not very clear because they were still influenced by the nafsu of wanting to be trusted and wanting to be respected, and all that kind of thing. Bapak said indeed this is the problem in Subud. It is very difficult to put Subud over if you don’t have a complete surrender within yourself and you still have a feeling of wanting to be a big shot, or wanting to be respected. Then it doesn't work. So this also created confusion there, the traces of which are still there. Bapak feels the best thing is to go there; take Bapak's talks and then fill in what is needed.

As regards Africa, in your case, Raphael, again Bapak has no objection if you go there, again taking Bapak's talks. As far as South Africa is concerned, it seems that they are willing to host Bapak. But Bapak knows that in all the other countries there is nothing. Bapak again has no objection at all if you would like to travel there and like Bapak said for Latin America, try to see what you can do there. And always bring with you the tapes.

( Rahmaniyah ) When to go to Latin America, before the Compact Council or after?

( Bapak ) Bapak feels it would be best actually if you can do it the same time as Bapak is there, then you can do with Bapak the places he will go to and when Bapak is gone you go to the places where Bapak didn't go to like, Bapak is not going to Argentina, Peru, Ecuador and so on.

( Rahmaniyah ) What to do with the Coordinators?

( Bapak ) Bapak said that you can try and choose one, and try and suggest one to Bapak.

( Question ) About forwarding letters to the Dewan?

Bapak said that actually it is time that the simple letters, the letters which can be answered just by reference to Bapak's old answers, Bapak feels it is time that the International Helpers now start working on those. Bapak says the way to answer those is by simply looks back to Bapak's old answers which you have already many copies of. The ones from Toronto have you got by the way?

( Answer ) We have only some.

( Sharif ) Because actually I sent much more to Toronto than I am sending now, because in those days Bapak answered many more letters and there must be a great many there.

( Answer ) We have written many times but it seems to be very confused in Toronto.

( Sharif ) Try again. It was Isabel Prentice who had those letters and answers.

Bapak So, Bapak said that from now on, Bapak assisted by Ibu Rahayu will choose simple letters which you can answer, so that it will reduce the burden at this end. Also in Toronto there was a confusion or a mixing between the Committee side and the kejiwaan side, so that they were working in a hurry but they did not actually get anywhere. So that, in fact both the financial accounts were chaotic and the organization was chaotic and the kejiwaan also was chaotic. But Bapak says it doesn't matter. But, Bapak hopes that now, in England, it will be different. Actually, what Bapak has been explaining the last 3 days is in a way a kind of explanation of why the situation in Toronto was so chaotic. Because of this mix-up, this mixing between the kejiwaan and the organization. So that is why Bapak explained very clearly how the 2 have to be separated, how they relate to each other. Bapak said it is like in Wolfsburg the organization was too strong, came too much to the front, so that the kejiwaan was deteriorated. And in Toronto both the kejiwaan and the organization deteriorated because of this mix-up, because of this confusion - and Bapak hopes from now on it will be clearer.

( Raphael ) We have a very good relationship with ISC and complete trust, so that there is really no problem whatsoever and whatever we ask of them financially we get. As far as I understand, Bapak indicated now that we could or should travel to Zones outside Europe and we will do this and I am sure there will be no problem with ISC.

Bapak says that Bapak knows well, that actually the idea of a budget for helpers travel - the first time it has been resolved or decided was in this meeting we just had. There was never a budget for it. So Bapak said that this is how it goes, you know, we get better as we go along. That is how it has to be, like a baby, we start as a baby, we start by crawling and then we walk and then we run.

( Raphael ) There was also a question brought up, that we try to arrange for a helper of this Zone to be sent to Vietnam to make contact there. I would like to put this question to Bapak, if it is a good idea or not?

Bapak says it depends on the situation and the atmosphere in Vietnam and is something you have to study before you go. Because if it is already easy for a foreigner to go there and meet people, and meet the members, then of course why not? But if it is still not yet the time, then it will not only be difficult for the person who goes there, but it will bring difficulties for the people whom he meets. Bapak said you have to wait until you are sure that it is the right time. The situation or the Government is Communist but the people are not a 1OO% Communist, so the lack of stability depends on these 2 things, while you have a kind of conflict you will not get stability. It is no different from Eastern Europe, like Yugoslavia or Poland. Poland is in the same situation, the Government is Communist but the people are already trying to free themselves from Communism. So it is still difficult for us to do things in countries like that. It is easy to organize the Vietnamese to come out of Vietnam but it is very difficult for us to have any real relationship with the people who are in Vietnam. Bapak said, you have to study the situation and see when it is the right moment.

( Raphael ) I don’t know if it is the appropriate moment to bring this up. In the Vietnamese report to the Congress this was not read out loud, in which he asks specially Bapak that they had asked before whether they should leave Vietnam and they got the answer that they should wait and see. And he says that the situation is very, very difficult and the helpers from Vietnam would again like to ask Bapak this question.

Bapak: Actually there are two considerations, because for Subud, from the point of view of God, from the point of view of the kejiwaan there is nothing. There is no problem. Whether you are here or there or anywhere, it is the same. So if Subud is forbidden here, you move there, and you do latihan there. But the point is that if they do that then they are not Vietnamese any more, they move to America and become American, they move to Australia, they become Australian, they are no longer Vietnamese. So if they are willing to put the kejiwaan above the organization - let us say - then they will say, "O.K. I leave Vietnam and go and become some other nationality. But if they consider the organization is more important than the kejiwaan - in other words - they feel themselves as Vietnamese, they can only be Vietnamese in Vietnam and then they have to face what is the situation there: they can't do the latihan, they are having a lot of problems, and so on. So they have to understand that if they want to leave they are giving up being Vietnamese in order to go and do the latihan. And Bapak said, of course that is right, by all means; but they have to understand the choice they are making, and f they prefer to remain Vietnamese then they have to stay in Vietnam and accept what is the situation there. Because this is the way of the world. It is like, supposing Subud were forbidden in Indonesia, then Bapak has to make a choice. Is it more important for him to be in Indonesia or is it more important to do Subud? In other words, Bapak will say: “O.K. I will do Subud elsewhere, I will go out of Indonesia." So this is something they have to understand, it is their choice.

And then I asked Bapak, I said the problem is like this, that the question before was that there are many members who want to go out and the opportunity was there to go out by paying so much in gold they could get people to bring them out and at that time Bapak said "no, don’t do it" because you will face a suffering greater than anything you can imagine if you leave Vietnam now. And true enough, soon after that this boat thing started, and before that started Bapak advised them not to do it. And so I asked Bapak, is the danger over now, is it all right, supposing those who want to come out, can they now come out? And Bapak said yes, as long as they are sincere about leaving their country.

( Raphael ) May I go on? My next question is only partly related with my function as an international helper and is partly related to my family.· I live in Oslo where I teach and in the summer I have, been going to Marseilles to work at the research laboratory, doing physics there. Now, this laboratory has proposed that I take a job there, they pay well, I get 3 times as much there and the requirement is not so very strict, it is 3 hours teaching a week and apart from that I do my research. I would like, if it is possible to have Bapak's advice if it is a good thing to accept this job. The disadvantage is of course that the children will not like to learn French - I have 4 small children.

Bapak says, actually it is better in Oslo than in France. Bapak says that is just the answer. But the thing to consider is like this: One always thinks of oneself, but actually the important tiling is what use are you to other people? The question to ask yourself is that if you are in France what is the result of your work, what is the aim, what is the long term future for what you are doing there? Are you really there in a position to help other people? to make them into better people, with a greater faith in Almighty God? So that your work is really something useful for society around you? It is sure, that in Oslo, you have been there a long time, that you have an influence on people and that your work is really useful for people there. And because Bapak feels that actually you are more useful there, than in France, so Bapak advises you to stay in Oslo. Because the financial side is negligible, it doesn't matter. O.K., maybe you only earn a third of what you earn in France, that doesn't matter. The important thing is the usefulness of what you can do there. So, that is why Bapak advises you that it is better in Oslo. Bapak not only gives you the answer but also the background to the answer. And included in that is your family, your usefulness to your family. Very important.

( Raphael ) I have also been offered a similar job in a laboratory in America, they even pay better but the situation is not so free. It is an industrial laboratory. But the money will help me to come to Cilandak more often etc.

Bapak Also no. Actually you can prove it to yourself, rather than just talking about it, so stand up please.

If you work in France, how is it, what happens? - Test

What your receiving means is that emptiness in your work, which you will try to fill and in trying to fill it your will have a lot of quarrels with the people around you, with the people who will be working with you.

Now, how will it be with your work in the United States? - Test

Now in Oslo?

It is little, but it is at peace. What everyone is looking for is to be at peace - in other words - to be happy, not ill all the time. What is the use having a lot of money but you are in a state of constant worry and confusion.

Actually the easy way to answer is for Bapak to test like he did before, but you can test it for yourself, as long as when you test you are really sincere and completely free of any self interest or any wishes, you will receive.

Bapak said, this is why actually it is funny if Subud members cannot do enterprises. Because we are enveloped by the Power of Almighty God, so that, actually it should be easy for us to find the way, finding what we have to do, and do it. But the problem is that people don’t understand that they also have to work for it. Where all the enterprises fail is because people have a plan or imagine something for themselves which is already wrong. So that later when they are doing it they don’t like to work, they don’t feel like doing it - they imagine it but they don’t do it. So then the enterprise goes to pot. Because it is impossible to achieve something, it is impossible to make a profit or to achieve success in something without working.

You can't do an enterprise peacefully and comfortably, you have to make an effort and then you get the result. You can't bypass the effort, you can't just be relaxed and at peace and comfortable and then just get it. It has to be done with an effort. And this is way Bapak said it is like in America. Bapak remembers a big enterprise that a Subud member started and it failed. It is because they were always testing things, but they were not actually doing anything they were not working, and worse, they were not experts in the field that they were working in. The proof is here, Bapak has built this building. Bapak didn't do the building, Bapak brought the experts who knew how to do it. And then it was done with hard work. So this is something people should realize that actually once we know what we have to do then we have to use our heart and mind, or rather our intelligence - that is what God has given us, our intelligence which is for solving our problems once we know the direction we have to go, then we have to work.

An example of what Bapak is trying to say is in the Kalimantan project. Bapak knows that just to start the project you will need about 2 million rupiahs, which we don’t have. But in the land which Bapak has bought there is quartz sand, which we can sell and on condition that one day we make a glass factory there. And this sale then will bring in money with which we can build up our projects, so that, for example, later we can also have a glass factory. With the money that Bapak gets from this sale we will be able to buy the land and concessions for developing the plantations, which will cost maybe two billion rupiahs. And then, at the same time we will be doing mining operations, and with the mining concessions we hope to find things - from the sale of which we can then also finance the agricultural projects.

So this is Bapak's idea, that we work with the money which we earn for working - in other words - we capitalize ourselves from the results of our own work. So that anything goes on simultaneously, that we find the way and also the capital as we work. Bapak says, it is the same as with the latihan, the latihan progresses, at the same time as we worship God we are guided by God - at the same time as we are purified by God. So while our being is being corrected and cleaned and put right, at the same time we are receiving indications for our life. So that we are guided how to live, while at the same time our being is growing, so that our growth is like a plant. O.K., maybe we would like to sell it right away, but we cant, we have to wait till the fruit is there. So it will grow by itself as we receive the latihan kejiwaan.

So this is what Bapak means by finding the where with all for our work from our own work and finding our way as we go along, so that we don’ t talk too much about things which are not real yet. We start working from the moment we make our plans, so that the plans develop with the work.

And on the agricultural land there are huge trees. We will start by selling the timber and replacing them with trees which bear some fruit; like coffee, chocolate, cocoa, palm oil, and so on. And clearing the trees will probably take 20 years, and By the time the trees are cleared - or even before - the crops we have planted are already yielding some results. So, this is how we have to be, we are always working and our work is always ready from the results of what we have done before·

There are about 200.000 hectares that Bapak has reserved, so it is bigger than Jakarta probably.

So, in order to show the Government people there, that we are not just going to take all their wealth and take it out of the country, Bapak is setting up this community there, at least 500 houses, so that we ourselves live there and they see that that is our home. So we are obviously going to keep the wealth that we make, we will stay there, and this is to show them the fact that we are serious about developing their province, and therefore the Government itself will be happy because their place is being improved and it is being made better or more prosperous.

So, our way of working is fair to all concerned - in other words - we share our benefits and our good fortune with them.

And one of the benefits for the country is that we will be able to attract people over from Java to Kalimantan, and Bapak foresees that this will be about 20 million people. Because in Java there are now already 80 million people, whereas central Kalimantan is less than one million, which is bigger than Java.

And then if we do this then it is sure that the Government will look favorably on Subud and we will not be obstructed in whatever we want to do.

( Raphael ) This is also concerning work I am doing and what I should be doing. The main benefit in my work has been that I, to a certain degree can receive the answer to the questions in this research. This has lead me to a good position in the field of researches. When Bapak speaks about enterprises, I then wonder maybe I should try to switch and develop some real enterprise or should try to educate myself more on the field of technic, as geology or mining, or anything like that. Or if it is OK as I am? The reason why I have not switched before, is because I have a great pleasure in my work.

Bapak said O.K., Bapak will give you a very quick answer. If you have to eat a fish, no matter if a big fish or a small fish, you have the joy of eating the fish when you buy it - but you cannot compare that joy with the fish you eat which you caught yourself. Even if that is a very small fish, you will get more satisfaction and more happiness from eating that small fish than from a big one which you bought in a shop. Or if you buy fruit, you can buy very beautiful fruit in a shop, but it will never taste so fantastic as the one you grew in your own garden. Now this is the difference between what you are doing and what Bapak is doing. Bapak is catching his own fish while you are buying it in a shop.